Jump to content


Laser dazzlers as self defense weapons. Thoughts?


56 replies to this topic

#1 Buffmuffin04

    Fusion Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 420 posts

Posted 27 July 2010 - 04:41 PM

Quote

Quote

As a self defense weapon? >.< that's even WORSE than a laser >.<

I'll knock them dead with my good looks.

haha!

:lol:

#2 Atomic

    25mW Classic Wicked Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 27 July 2010 - 04:36 PM

I believe in recycling. So I am recycling my own post from another thread.

Wounding and maiming in self defense are legally far more serious crimes than killing you attacker. This is true in the US as well as Canada, and the UK.

The legal seriousness is that the criminal is still around to lie in their defence about their crime. They cannot do that if they are dead. In the US any police officer will tell you that if you are the legal owner of a firearm and have access to said firearm and are faced with someone wielding a knife and wishes you harm you should always opt to put two rounds centre mass rather than disabling them with a round in the leg.

Disabling your attacker is assault with a deadly weapon which is a crime. Killing your armed attacker IS self defence, which is quite legal.

A kitchen knife is legally a more useful defensive tool than a laser. Especially with the smart switch. Having watched the smart switch video i would say that using an arctic g2 to defend yourself is close to premeditated assault. This equals jail time for you.

Its several distinct flavors of dumb idea. Take a firearm class and buy a firearm to defend yourself. Unless you live in the UK or Canada like me. Then you have to pretty much improvise any self defence. But a laser is still a piss poor idea for self defence and will likely land you in jail long before your potential attacker.

#3 hogfatt

    25mW Classic Wicked Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 27 July 2010 - 04:21 PM

I look at the dazzler as more of a way to buy yourself a few seconds to escape your situation rather than actually "defend" yourself.

I don't think the artic is viable in this situation as there is the maiming factor.

I however don't buy the, "Well you have a chance to hurt/maim someone 20 feet behind your assailant". Well, you have this same if not greater chance with a fire arm. But I would rather be using the fire arm as it is a universal, "I mean business" form of self defense that is understood globally.

#4 Agile

    Nexus Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 121 posts

Posted 27 July 2010 - 04:17 PM

Quote

As a self defense weapon? >.< that's even WORSE than a laser >.<

I'll knock them dead with my good looks.

#5 Buffmuffin04

    Fusion Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 420 posts

Posted 27 July 2010 - 04:07 PM

Quote

still gonna use my laser shades

As a self defense weapon? >.< that's even WORSE than a laser >.<

#6 Agile

    Nexus Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 121 posts

Posted 27 July 2010 - 03:55 PM

still gonna use my laser shades

#7 Buffmuffin04

    Fusion Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 420 posts

Posted 27 July 2010 - 03:18 PM

Lol, thanks, i tired.

No, someone will not be struck blind as if by god if lased with the arctic. Not unless you have the person immobilized and strapped to a table, with their eyes pried open, and lase them for a couple of seconds in each eye.

To achieve complete, instant blindness with any laser that you could lift, there are going to be 2 factors:

Intensity and Duration. A surgeon's hand and knowledge would be stable enough to effectively destroy your vision in one pass with an arctic, if you were on the table before him.

For bob the J hole from down the street shining your eyes from 5 feet away... Yes, you are going to suffer significant injury, possibly even complete and total blindness in one eye, assuming you for some reason failed to move / blink / react etc... (yeah right)


More than likely a significant loss of vision in the other eye off center of the beam as well...

The much more likely outcome is "LEGAL BLINDNESS" legally defined as a total of 50% vision loss in any combination of your 2 eyes. 100% in one, 50/50, 60/40... however you achieve that ratio.

But no, you will not be instantly 'hand of god' blind.

You aren't gonna read a book, drive a car, or take up bird watching... But with a 200 pound man standing 5 feet in front of you, you will still manage to get all 19 rounds dead center mass....

Laser exposure causes serious retinal damage. It will result in blindness.

#8 Darrel

    Advanced Member

  • Verified Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts

Posted 27 July 2010 - 02:58 PM

hey Buffmuffin
Its probably not very often that anyone effector changes anyone's opinion in a forum like this BUT you have done a good job with mine. It changes every thing to know that blindness would be partial. Somewhere I heard that the arctic would cause complete instant blindness, presuming you are correct your comment make perfect sense. If the blindness was complete (like the hand of God) then the arctic would be more effective.

Can ya feel the hate and jealousy coming from FlashBright. He must be a frustrated liberal. Dont worry some of us 40 year old kids with lasers, guns, and God will protect you when you get attacked.

Thats right I'm holding on to God and my guns and my arctic!

#9 Buffmuffin04

    Fusion Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 420 posts

Posted 26 July 2010 - 03:04 PM

Quote

BUff, by now you should have realized that 95% of the posters here are kids buying lasers to light matches, melt balloons and black trash bags or to impress their girlfriends you also realize you can't change many minds here either. 3% of the remainder are wannabes trying out for the local youtube star wars video, pretend SF or security guards that never passed POST.

That leaves the 2%.

Children don't have credit cards in their name. They cannot legally enter into a contract, with a CC company, or legally affirm WL's compliance EULA.

So what you are saying is that 95% of the 13,000 + buyers of the Arctic are parents buying it for their children.

Or that 95% of the 13,000 + buyers are false contracts where children have stolen their parents credit card to buy the product.

I'm sorry, that just doesn't wash.

I understand you motivations for wanting to post that, but i think a more responsible and accurate figure of stolen cards is probably around 3%

Likewise i think a closer number for parents buying one for their children knowingly probably fits into the 5% range.

#10 FlashBright

    Fusion Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 273 posts

Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:51 PM

BUff, by now you should have realized that 95% of the posters here are kids buying lasers to light matches, melt balloons and black trash bags or to impress their girlfriends you also realize you can't change many minds here either. 3% of the remainder are wannabes trying out for the local youtube star wars video, pretend SF or security guards that never passed POST.

That leaves the 2%.

#11 Buffmuffin04

    Fusion Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 420 posts

Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:16 PM

Quote

the arctic would be a poor choice but not because of your reasons. you could blind somebody that's far behind the target you're aiming at.

Alright. I have been avoiding this thread like the plague because there are already 3 modern ones like it and this one is 3 years old, but at this i feel compelled to step in here.

Laserfan555, could not the same argument be made about firearms? And those are considered the preeminent self defense weapons?

Now, lets put this tired old thread to bed.

the title: "Laser dazzlers as self defense weapons. Thoughts?" says it all. Allow me to shut this down.

A laser dazzler is not a self defense weapon. It is an offensive crowd control device. It is designed to overwhelm the senses of a person who is not a primary threat.

If you are in a crowd, at a protest, and try to throw rocks at armored police you might get dazzled.

If you are in a nightclub parking lot, and pull a gun on police, you aren't going to get dazzled. You are going t get shot. Period.

The dazzler is unpleasant, but it is not debilitating. Just like the tazer. If you pull a gun on police, you aren't going to get tazed, you are going to get shot.

Neither the dazzler nor the tazer produce reliable debilitating abilities sufficient to prevent the usage of a primary weapon... If the man has a gun or a knife and you taze or dazzle him, the odds are significantly in his favor that you are going to end up dead. this is because while you are busy operating a control device, he is going to pull something which has a PRIMARY function as a weapon, and kill you deader than yesterdays blue plate meatloaf in under 1 second.

Unless you find yourself in what has to be the *UNIQUE* situation of having people protest *YOU* and throw rocks, or otherwise become disorderly, a dazzler is not a valid option.

There are only 2 types of incidents you, as a civilian, would ever have to 'defend' yourself against, an attack against property or an attack against your person, (yours or someone else's)

In either case, you are always going to be facing a primary threat. One or more individuals that have demonstrated a propensity for violence and a willingness to cause bodily harm to you, (or others).

This means they have a gun, or a knife, or *may* have a gun, or a knife.

Either of which are far superior offensive weapons to any laser you can lift; let alone carry.

So forget about facing down the big, bad man with the sub-machine gun with your big, brave laser. To quote a wiser man than I, "Ain't Gonna Happen"

If you want a self defense weapon, buy a quality concealed handgun and get a license to carry it concealed.

That is the only weapon it is legal to defend yourself with anyway.

Anything else will be viewed in the eyes of the courts as a lack of true fear for your life, or maiming. Both of which put you in a cell with Bubba and require you to spend the rest of your life paying the individual you injured or killed.

With regard to the 'blindness thing'... You are not a surgeon. The world is not an operating table, and the people you encounter are not sedated and immobilized. If you shoot someone in the eye with a laser, i cite the arctic because so many people specify IT, you aren't going to blind them.

Let me Emphasize this again, so everyone is clear:
They are not going to be struck black as the night blind as if by the hand of God.


You will do significant, grievous, and irreversible damage to their eyesight, they may well loose 50% vision plus, but they wont loose it *immediately*... The human brain is amazing, and fills in missing information from the eyes with remarkable agility. They WILL be able to see your dumb a$$ well enough to pump 19 rounds in your chest, make no mistake.

Here are some examples of where you might have to defend yourself. Picture yourself making these arguments in front of the Grand Jury.

e.g. I was in fear of my life so i engaged in hand to hand combat with baseball bats... don't wash, why didn't you just run / drive / call for help.

e.g. I was in fear of my life so i engaged in hand to hand combat with a knife... same outcome.

e.g. I was in fear for my life so i shot him in the eye with my 1 watt laser, and he pulled out his Glock 17 and shot me 19 times... Ok, so the fear for your life was real, but you are still dead.

e.g. I was in fear for my life so i shot him in the eye with my 1 watt laser, he got mad and beat the stuffing out of me and broke my laser off in my pancreas before he was taken to the hospital where they found he had 65% vision loss in 1 eye and 15% in the other... Now you are going to spend the rest of your life paying off his $250,000,000 punitive judgment... After you get out of prison for maiming him, of course.
FN FS2000 with DragonLaser 100mw Green Spartan.
Posted Image

#12 laserfan555

    Elite Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 167 posts

Posted 26 July 2010 - 07:12 AM

Quote

An Arctic would be a very poor choice for self defence. It's inconvenient to carry around. It's safety features would slow you down. And it's not as bright as even a mid powered pen style green. My 100mw green is significantly brighter than my 570mw 445. ( Forget about burning skin - it won't happen if the attacker is moving!). Pen style greens are best. 100mw defocused to head size at 20 feet would be incredibly dazzling without doing any permanent damage.

the arctic would be a poor choice but not because of your reasons. you could blind somebody that's far behind the target you're aiming at.

#13 laserfan555

    Elite Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 167 posts

Posted 26 July 2010 - 07:06 AM

Quote

Hoo Ra EZ (thanks for your service)

I am really anxious to find the real potential danger of this arctic.
Hopefully I and others will find out the un-exaggerated truth. And that truth will dictate how I use this beast when it comes.
I know exactly what to expect from my guns and how to safely handle them. And the risks of ricochet etc.
I would love to be able to be able to show this laser off to friends buy burning things etc. But if it is really so bright that to see the dot (unprotected) at even 5-10 feet away could do damage or worse then obviously I will never do this.

But if it is this dangerous and the thought was there to carry as a potential self defense weapon. I want to exactly know what those limits are, just as you would with any weapon so to not hurt the wrong people. Especially those I intend to protect.
So far it sounds like it would be too much of a risk for personal injury to use this way.
Regarding its effectiveness as a personal defense weapon, I don't care how ignorant a person is about lasers i think they would back up when there skin started burning, or if the threat level warranted total blindness would do a good job of stopping them. My hope was that it would give me the ability to warn at a distance without injury to ether party but be able to raise the stakes instantly if needed. I would think it would give you an extremely fast tactical advantage. It wouldn't take very long to scan it across the eyes of one or a whole gang if you were called on your warning, God forbid.
If I ever was forced to blind someone I would carry that guilt and pain to the grave but I would rather that than see the grave sooner. I don't take this lightly.
No way to know if this theory is even close to possible (is the arctic not that powerful or so powerful that you blind your self from it shining on say a white tee shirt) until we get them and some people give up some accurate info. Sigh... until then

the laser dazzler is a different product than the arctic. the dazzler is much less strong and not focused to a point. the arctic is dangerous to use as self defense because someone standing 200 feet behind the attacker could also be blinded. and in regards to your question about the dangers of looking at the dot. yes it will cause eye damage at 5-10 feet just by looking at the dot. all persons nearby would have to wear safety goggles. you must always wear them when burning (even with lower power lasers) because of how close you are

#14 Darrel

    Advanced Member

  • Verified Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts

Posted 26 July 2010 - 06:56 AM

Geeee wow do I feel dumb! Dumb for casting pearls before swine!

Don"t worry about it, you wont understand that ether.

Good points about focused vs. unfocused from David.

#15 Devilwolf

    Nexus Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 98 posts

Posted 26 July 2010 - 12:21 AM

On the other hand if you just want to etch your initials on the ass of an intruder... then it is the right tool.

:D

#16 Fullmetal CX

    Elite Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 199 posts

Posted 25 July 2010 - 09:18 PM

I already explained this in another thread, so I don't think I need to repeat myself.

Using a laser as a tool for self-defense is stupid on so many different levels.

Buy a gun. They are cheaper, more reliable, and infinitely more effective. Not to mention that there would actually be less legal implications should you have to use it.

Use the right tool for the job. A man stopper a laser is not.

#17 Devilwolf

    Nexus Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 98 posts

Posted 25 July 2010 - 09:06 PM

Anyone who users a laser for self defense is likely to end up in the center of media shit storm. Once that happens the person will be made an example of.... even if then attacker was a serial rapist with AIDS and Leprosy.

Even if the DA doesn't press charges some lawyer will take the case pro bono for civil damages.

#18 FlashBright

    Fusion Laser

  • Verified Members
  • 273 posts

Posted 25 July 2010 - 07:56 PM

Quote

Quote

nice David
great practical info. Have you ever been in a scenario where one might use one this way?

Not so far thank goodness and I ain't looking for trouble! Realistically I think the most likely situation would be a road-rage incident of some kind (though only at night - see below).

A couple of thoughts about a dazzler:

First, an obvious point but it is less likely to be any use during the day. A light-adapted pupil is far less likely to be dazzled and the psychological effect of a laser beam is lost.

Second, there is the issue of focused versus defocused beam. The defocused beam is far more useful in terms of dazzling. The chances of being able to aim a 1mm wide beam into somebody's pupil at night in a confrontational situation must be fairly low. Whereas if the spot is head-sized, then just vaguely aiming in the right direction will do the job. Also, the defocused beam won't do any permanent damage, whereas 100mw of focused green at close range probably will. So with the defocused beam you avoid being sued (or, worse, prosecuted).
However, the the focused beam has the psychological edge. It is far more impressive than the defocused beam in terms of pure deterrent/scariness!

David

"So with the defocused beam you avoid being sued (or, worse, prosecuted)."

Nothing to do with WL - this is about safety of others.

You are insane. You shine a laser at anyone, focused, unfocused it won't matter. You will go to prison if they catch you. You stupid people thinking about a laser as a dazzle self defense weapon had better stick to playing with matches and burning black plastic tape.

You shine a laser at someone and you had better pray they don't decide to come after you because that puny little laser you have will not save you. I don't care how powerful it is. They will have the right to do anything in self defense to stop you.

A defocused laser beam is still a laser. Even if you shine a bright flashlight at someone driving a car you can be prosecuted. You will be easy to find because a lot of people are going to see you and someone will write down your car plate number. You shine a laser at a car and 20 people are calling 911. Your neighbors will turn you in.

Road rage my hind end. Call 911 idiot. Either that you just get out of the way and go in the other direction.

Pray that whomever you shine a laser at doesn't have a gun.

People like you are why others get worried about jerks playing with lasers. Grow up. Play with matches and gasoline or something.

As for the brainless thinking about scaring wild animals. Pray more. Many wild animal hunt by sound and smell as much as sight. You aren't going to see the Cougar dummies. And if you do and he is running toward you, yeah, stand your ground and try to hit its eyes. This is pure comedy. A Wolf? More stupidity. Hey, Shark week is on next week. Lets all go out and scare Great White sharks with an Arctic. Maybe take out a Mako or Tiger shark while you're at it.

And then there is packing a laser concealed. Here come the special ops wannabes and security guard pretenders. LMAO

I can't wait for the news stories to start cropping up. Idiot chewed up by neighbors dog - story at 10. Or, nerd shot to death by gang member for shining a laser into a car, details at 6. Listen to yourselves.

This was a public service and safety announcement. Kiddies lighting matches, cutting black plastic tape and trash bags are excused, they are too stupid to understand.

#19 davidgdg

    4.99mW Green Laser Toy

  • Verified Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 25 July 2010 - 07:34 PM

Quote

nice David
great practical info. Have you ever been in a scenario where one might use one this way?

Not so far thank goodness and I ain't looking for trouble! Realistically I think the most likely situation would be a road-rage incident of some kind (though only at night - see below).

A couple of thoughts about a dazzler:

First, an obvious point but it is less likely to be any use during the day. A light-adapted pupil is far less likely to be dazzled and the psychological effect of a laser beam is lost.

Second, there is the issue of focused versus defocused beam. The defocused beam is far more useful in terms of dazzling. The chances of being able to aim a 1mm wide beam into somebody's pupil at night in a confrontational situation must be fairly low. Whereas if the spot is head-sized, then just vaguely aiming in the right direction will do the job. Also, the defocused beam won't do any permanent damage, whereas 100mw of focused green at close range probably will. So with the defocused beam you avoid being sued (or, worse, prosecuted).
However, the the focused beam has the psychological edge. It is far more impressive than the defocused beam in terms of pure deterrent/scariness!

David

#20 Darrel

    Advanced Member

  • Verified Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts

Posted 25 July 2010 - 03:07 PM

nice David
great practical info. Have you ever been in a scenario where one might use one this way?





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users